tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post7707222315461463351..comments2023-10-25T02:16:28.192-06:00Comments on Ryan's linguistics blog: pre-fixed menuRyan Denzer-Kinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04015316224715016479noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-52689530019929031332010-12-12T01:51:09.833-07:002010-12-12T01:51:09.833-07:00@Jim:
Such words may have the orthographic reali...@Jim:<br /><br />Such words may have the orthographic realized as a schwa in certain situations -- e.g. in singing.<br /><br />However in normal conversational standard French there is no schwa.vphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16647609487352038948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-44969437084702202932010-12-06T17:10:48.039-07:002010-12-06T17:10:48.039-07:00"many words in french end in a consonant. for..."many words in french end in a consonant. for example, 'france' [frɑ̃s]."<br /><br />They don't end in consonants. you are just not hearing the vowels. They are faint, but they are there. If you say "La belle France", there is a very faint vowel between the 'l' and the 'f'. The same is true after the 's'. And not just in Provence, either.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07187836541591828806noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-2297217973316204052010-12-06T14:43:24.115-07:002010-12-06T14:43:24.115-07:00literalminded, I'm afraid that's not corre...literalminded, I'm afraid that's not correct. 'fixe' in this case would in fact be pronounced [fiks]. many words in french end in a consonant. for example, 'france' [frɑ̃s].MyOtherTonguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04597031673634664529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-18087880271891190912010-11-18T21:38:18.437-07:002010-11-18T21:38:18.437-07:00Those ignorant menu writers obviously don't re...Those ignorant menu writers obviously don't realize that French words never end in a consonant sound: It's pronounced "pre-fee"!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-50278458707240086132010-11-14T07:38:26.260-07:002010-11-14T07:38:26.260-07:00That's a good question, and it seems like othe...That's a good question, and it seems like other people have also had trouble distinguishing eggcorns and folk etymologies. I'm not sure if there's a fundamental difference. See some discussion here:<br />http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=3851Ryan Denzer-Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015316224715016479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-62904092201375460152010-11-14T02:50:07.470-07:002010-11-14T02:50:07.470-07:00Hi Ryan
Thank you for sharing your observations o...Hi Ryan<br /><br />Thank you for sharing your observations of linguistic behaviour in American English. You know, I was unfamiliar with the term "eggcorn" so I followed your link to Wikipedia and reading that short explanation and the rest of yours reminded me of a phenomenon that historical linguist Lyle Campbell mentions in his "Historical Linguistics: An Introduction". In the chapter on Analogical Change (p. 99) he has something called "folk etymology (popular etymology)" which he defines as "cases where linguistic imagination finds meaningful associations in the linguistic forms which were not originally there and, on the basis of these new associations, either the original form ends up being changed somewhat or new forms based on it are created" and he cites examples such as: "hamburger" which came from German (Hamburg + er) but in English was folk-etymologised into having to do with "ham" from which other forms where formed such as "cheeseburger", "chickenburger" and "chiliburger". Another example is "beef jerky, jerked beef" from Quechua "c'arqui" (through Spanish "charqui"). Nothing is "jerked" in the preparation of his dried meat. Another example is "outrage" coming from French "outrage" from Latin "ultra + agium" meaning that the original etymology of "outrage" has nothing to do with "out" or "rage".<br />It seems to me that Campbells "folketymology" is the same phenomenon as Pullum's "eggcorn" - what do you think?Steffen Haurholm-Larsenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395967541509919989noreply@blogger.com