tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post4103795926763656873..comments2023-10-25T02:16:28.192-06:00Comments on Ryan's linguistics blog: subjunctiveRyan Denzer-Kinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04015316224715016479noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-47372716038882916332010-12-14T21:52:42.701-07:002010-12-14T21:52:42.701-07:00Oh, and "if John drive" may be rejected,...Oh, and "if John drive" may be rejected, but it doesn't mean it is grammatically incorrect. I've used it before once and got a point deducted on a paper, but it was "whether she think" and when I told my professor it was the subjunctive and I was just being fancy, he smiled, agreed with my argument, and put the point back.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-318561729686081572010-12-14T17:50:36.683-07:002010-12-14T17:50:36.683-07:00I think my original post last year was meant to sh...I think my original post last year was meant to show how the English subjunctive can be used; not how it is pragmatically used. I use it sometimes in those ways I have shown, but not always. It depends on my MOOD lol.Nicknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-10072619441114579122010-11-07T19:26:22.457-07:002010-11-07T19:26:22.457-07:00As I pointed out in the post, the position that th...As I pointed out in the post, the position that the subjunctive must be used whenever possible is prescriptive at best, ridiculous and incorrect at worst. I think most people would reject "If John drive, I don't want to go on the road trip." The subjunctive is only preserved in a few verbs, even in prescriptive English. And while I'm not sure about French, I do know that Spanish too is losing the subjunctive.Ryan Denzer-Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015316224715016479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-58363117660208418142010-11-07T16:13:51.113-07:002010-11-07T16:13:51.113-07:00To not use subjunctive when possible is certainly ...To not use subjunctive when possible is certainly incorrect English. Just as it is incorrect Spanish or French to not do so where possible.Anthony Eylernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-52418027379657367852009-10-29T13:15:11.200-06:002009-10-29T13:15:11.200-06:00Sometimes I say "If I be in the room", b...Sometimes I say "If I be in the room", but most people will say "Should I be in the room" or "If I should be in the room". I always say the subjunctive when I say "as long as I be in the room...". <br /><br />Yes, it is the subjunctive. Everyone says "if truth be told"; "Until death do us part" is an old form of the subjunctive. Technically a subjunctive verb must come after every conjunction, but this rule is seldom followed anymore.<br /><br />Ex.<br />My client won't talk until he BE given a good deal.<br />My client wouldn't talk until he WERE given a good deal.<br /><br />Before I BE put to death, I just want to say one thing.<br />Before I WERE put to death, I would just want to say one thing.<br /><br />Wherever you [may] BE, I will find you; no matter how long it [might] TAKE.<br />Wherever you WERE, I would find you; no matter how long it TOOK.<br /><br />These are older rules and in no part mandatory anymore, except in the PAST SUBJUNCTIVE. The present is not, but let's SAY you WERE taking French. In French, the words "before" and "until" take a subjunctive verb and there's no getting around that. If one PUT it in the indicative, that person will get baleful glares.<br /><br />You hear it in "until" in the song, "America the Beautiful":<br /><br />"till all success BE nobleness and every gain divine"<br /><br />You will hear "if that be the case" sometimes or "if it be possible" or "if I be allowed to speak" or "if he do well on his test", but normally the indicative or "should" plus bare infinitive will come into place here. Just remember, the subjunctive is only necessary if you BE feeling very formal. Another example to show you why a subjunctive is in a subordinate that clause:<br /><br />I demand that this CEASE because if it NOT CEASE, I shall be forced to make it CEASE.<br /><br />I ask that he BE in the room. If he BE in the room, we can help him GET it done.Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01337344664298471892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-29453178644390850132008-11-19T22:57:00.000-07:002008-11-19T22:57:00.000-07:00"If I were" is an example of a counterfactual, whi..."If I were" is an example of a counterfactual, which is indeed one instance of an irrealis mood.Ryan Denzer-Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015316224715016479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-41695001701141295292008-09-05T08:38:00.000-06:002008-09-05T08:38:00.000-06:00Isn't the "were" of "if I were" often called the i...Isn't the "were" of "if I were" often called the irrealis? Since it doesn't have the same distribution or function as the present subjunctive (ie "I demand that this cease").goofyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14760721504519661112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-34325004441407484082008-08-11T21:06:00.000-06:002008-08-11T21:06:00.000-06:00My instinct here is that the bare form "be" is use...My instinct here is that the bare form "be" is used in a conditional. I never use the subjunctive in this context, however, and I doubt I've heard anyone use it recently, if ever. I always use "is".Ryan Denzer-Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04015316224715016479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2851981677644878233.post-37276519330613012852008-08-11T17:57:00.000-06:002008-08-11T17:57:00.000-06:00Why not "if he is in the room" instead of "if he b...Why not "if he is in the room" instead of "if he be in the room." 'be' sounds only natural to pirate-talk and AAVE to me.NWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12626377419233860251noreply@blogger.com